BRIEFINGS PODCAST: THE JOB HUNT: THE BEST—AND WORST—OF TIMES

The Job Hunt: The Best—and Worst—of Times

NOTE: While this transcript has been reviewed, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript.

Jill Wiltfong:

Does anybody understand this job market? How do people break through and stand out?

Deepali Vyas:

Tell me a story. I would've never considered him for the job if I had just seen what was on paper.

Jen Zamora:

Yes, you can be your true self. We have visibility and access and more transparency than ever.

Jill Wiltfong:

How important are all the little details?

Deepali Vyas:

Hit it up front. Give me three lightning facts.

Jill Wiltfong:

I'll bring the energy, man. I'll bring it, I'll bring it.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Not qualified for that. Not qualified for that. Overqualified for that. Man, I'll never get a job.

Recruiter Man:

Fear not, Rupak, Recruiter Man is here.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Wow, can you, like shoot lasers out of your eyes and fly faster than a speeding bullet?

Recruiter Man:

I can do better than that. I can get you a job.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Thanks, Recruiter Man.

Recruiter Man:

Just doing my job.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

What's wrong? Is there kryptonite nearby?

Recruiter Man:

It's worse than that. It's macroeconomic headwinds. Noooooooooooooooo!

Narrator:

Will Recruiter Man gets sucked in by the vortex of macroeconomic headwinds? Or will he live to fight joblessness another day? Find out on the next episode of "Recruiter Man."

Jill Wiltfong:

Hi, this is Jill Wiltfong, Chief Marketing Officer for Korn Ferry, and this is "Briefings," our deep dive into leadership.

Does anybody understand this job market?

On the one hand, the U.S unemployment rate has been hovering near historic lows, but an economic gloom still hangs over companies and workers across the globe. Nearly half of Americans say the job market is "bad". Is it due to inflation, high interest rates, geopolitical unrest?

It's hard to say for sure, but who ends up in the middle of all of this? You. Whether you are unemployed, looking for a job, or have a job but want to move elsewhere, experts say it's never been more baffling to figure out how to get a new gig. But never fear, we're here on the job hunt in the best and worst of times.

Here today to speak with me on this pressing topic is Deepali Vyas, a Korn Ferry Senior Client Partner and Global Head of Fintech Payments and Crypto Practice.

Hi Deepali, thanks for joining.

Deepali Vyas:

Hello, thank you, Jill.

Jill Wiltfong:

Somebody said to me the other day, you've gotten something like 200 email requests just sitting in your inbox as we speak. So, with all of that traffic, how do people break through and stand out to a recruiter? How do they even get noticed?

Deepali Vyas:

So, I'll answer the question by saying, "Help me help you." So, for the job seekers out there, do not land in my inbox asking me to grab coffee. I have no idea who you are or what you want. So, I really want people to make it easy for me and other recruiters to want to call you. Give us a reason.

I have a very cool story in that because of this barrage of messages that I receive on LinkedIn, I actually had someone send me a video intro. And that video intro, I'm sure they used some AI tools, and they inserted my name every chance they got in that video intro. And I listened to it for three minutes, and I was like, wow, this is different. I'm gonna call them back.

Jill Wiltfong:

Deepali let's dig into this. Get behind the scenes a little bit on this one. Have there ever been people that you saw on paper that kind of fell flat, and then for whatever reason they made it through, got into the interview, and they landed the job much to your surprise?

Deepali Vyas:

There are many, many people that have come to impress me because they were able to articulate an idea, tell me a story. I had a candidate that started telling me that he was managing the family's deli, and he actually took some time off from his regular, you know, data job and started managing the deli because he had to. And the things he learned on how to operate a business and telling me that story with almost a tear in his eye totally changed my mind about him. I would've never considered him for the job if I had just seen what was on paper.

Hannah Mason:

Every job search is different. So, it's hard to say that one thing is 100% better than another, but I think some of the most common ways that people get jobs are one, obviously through job boards and online applications. And I think that's got a lot of kinds of negativity lately because people can find that really frustrating. You know, you can apply for, as you said, Andrew, like 300 jobs and not hear anything back. But I think it's still probably the number one way that people do actually find jobs.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's job search strategist, Hannah Mason speaking. Deepali, let's talk about job boards for a minute. What happens when you see that 300 people have applied like Hannah's talking about? How do you stand out to hiring managers at that stage?

Deepali Vyas:

On average hiring managers spend six seconds on a resume.

Jill Wiltfong:

Wow.

Deepali Vyas:

If your resume does not match the job description, it'll automatically be passed up so that, you know, having your resume match that job description is table stakes. And then aside from the standard expectations of attention to detail, no errors on the resume, the more information an applicant can provide, the better.

So, for example, if you are applying for a technical role or even a marketing role, putting links to your GitHub or your portfolio, showing examples of what you've done further than the rest of the 300 applications is really what's gonna take you far.

Jill Wiltfong:

How important are all the little details of like who you reported to and all the dirty little details? Is it about that or is it about outcomes? Is it some blending of the two?

Deepali Vyas:

Tell me what your responsibilities were and what your expertise was in. And give me three enlightening facts. Give me three outcomes or results that were your doing. And having that reflected on the resume. Because then I can understand when I pick it up, I have to be able to understand exactly what you did and how you impacted the organization.

Jill Wiltfong:

Let me ask you one other thing, because this has come up from people I know that are in this market right now who are getting the feedback that they're overqualified. What does that really mean? You're overqualified, this job's beneath you, but you're desperate for work. What do you do with that?

Deepali Vyas:

Some of the advice that I give is acknowledging it upfront, hit it upfront. I know that I have more years of experience than what this role calls for, but here's what I bring to the table and here's what you're going to get with a candidate like myself and my skills. And I am not going to be shy to take a pay cut because I really wanna work for this company. The culture fits for me. There are so many ways that you can express your interest in how you fit for the firm, even though you may be "overqualified."

Jill Wiltfong:

Deepali, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your job hunt wisdom.

Deepali Vyas:

Thank you, Jill, my pleasure.

Jill Wiltfong:

Well, we've covered quite a bit why the market is so tough, how to navigate job boards, and what firms are looking for. But really it's just the tip of the iceberg. So, let's find out how to nail the interview and salary discussion after the break.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Hi, and welcome to the break. I'm Rupak Bhattacharya, and here's a quick look at what else is happening in business from Korn Ferry's "This Week in Leadership."

Speaker:

29% of people quit their jobs within a month after their first promotion.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Promotion may well increase the risk that an employee will quit according to one study. Experts say that, especially if a promotion happens with no accompanying increase in pay, it could be seen as borderline negative.

Speaker:

How would you deal with conflict with a co-worker?

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Do you need conflict management training? A survey of 600 U.S business leaders shows that nearly 6 out of 10 say that their weakest skills are in conflict management, and that it's costly to companies.

Speaker:

One study found students had 30% better knowledge retention two weeks after learning with VR as opposed to traditional education methods.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

UK corporations appear to be among the world's leaders in converting corporate training from the traditional onsite experience to virtual reality. Already slightly more than one in four British firms are reportedly using virtual reality or augmented reality.

For more insights on business and leadership, head to kornferry.com/insights. Now back to Jill and our episode on "The Job Hunt: The Best -and Worst- of Times."

Rom Brafman:

So, think about this, say that you're a manager and you ask somebody, "Where do you see yourself five years from now?" Now if the person were honest, they would say, "Five years? I don't even know where I'm gonna be six months from now. I'm applying for a job, this is a transition." But they don't say that. They say, "Well, I see myself being in this company and growing and taking on added responsibility."

"What are your biggest weaknesses?" "Well, sometimes I come to work late, and sometimes I have a tendency to get into arguments and sometimes fights with my coworkers." We never say that. We always give, "I work too hard." "Sometimes, I'm too hard on myself," and it's a show.

And what they showed, the psychologist showed that some of us are just better actors than others, but that doesn't make us for being better candidates for a given job.

Jill Wiltfong:

We're talking about how to get a job in today's market, and we're now joined by Jen Zamora. She's the Head of our Coaching Team at Korn Ferry Advance, our career advice platform.

Hi, Jen.

Jennifer Zamora:

Hello.

Jill Wiltfong:

Jen, we just heard from psychologist Rom Brafman saying that once you reach the interview stage, you have to be a good actor. Is that true, or can you be your true self?

Jennifer Zamora:

Well, I'm a big fan of being authentic. Our CEO's written a lot of books on career and leadership. And one of the acronyms in one of the books really resonates with me. And I use it a lot with job seekers specifically in this part of the job search because I think it helps get to, yes, you can be your true self, and you can do that by channeling your ACT.

So, the goal is to be Authentic, to make a Connection with the human being that you are meeting, whether it's the recruiter or the hiring manager, a panel of peers or other leaders, and give them a Taste of what you'd be like to work with.

Jill Wiltfong:

Let's talk about how coaching can help here because you do a lot of this. The number of coach practitioners reportedly increased by 54% between 2019 and 2022. We know that our Korn Ferry Advance coaches are top-notch because we strategically hire the very best.

But with so much choice out there, how do you go about identifying the right coach to help you ace the interview, the right coach for you?

Jennifer Zamora:

Yeah, I think it comes down to understanding your needs, preferences, and objectives. Are you just trying to land a job, similar role, same function, same industry? Do you need to make a change? Are you clear on what that change is and what steps you need to take to help you accelerate? Are you trying to advance in your field, or are you feeling stuck, and you need somebody to help you think about like what is that future step? What is the job that you're looking for? So that'll help you narrow your search and set your expectations.

I also do a lot of mock interviews as a coach. So if you are looking for a coach who's gonna help you in the interview process, you might wanna know, is your coach willing and able to do a mock interview with you and give you feedback.

Jeff Su:

61%. 61% of people fail at negotiating a higher salary after receiving a job offer. And you wanna guess why? It's not because of the economy, it's not because the employer is being unreasonable, and it's not because they have no other offers to leverage. Most of those people lost right then and there when they decided not to even try to negotiate for a higher salary.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's career advisor Jeff Su talking about the part everyone likes to get to, the job offer and salary discussion. Jen let's say you're not being presented the right figure in pay, but you're concerned about asking for too much. How do you get to that goldilocks amount of compensation that's just right? How do you figure that out?

Jennifer Zamora:

Understanding your strengths, understanding your skillset, and, you know, I call it your KSAEs, right? Your Knowledge, Skills, Abilities, and Experiences as they relate to the target job. You need to know what the market value is for that in relation to the target job. And now, I mean, we have visibility and access and more transparency than ever.

Oftentimes, you're seeing ranges in job descriptions, which can give you a quick read on what market is for that particular role in that company, which we haven't had previously.

Jill Wiltfong:

Perfect, love it. Well, I feel like this was all really helpful, Jen. Thank you so much for coming on.

For more career advice, you can head to kfadvance.com and find Jen and people like her there willing and able to help.

Jen, thank you.

Jennifer Zamora:

Thank you, Jill.

Jill Wiltfong:

The Executive Producer of "Briefings" is Jonathan Dahl. Today's episode was produced by Rupak Bhattacharya, Nadira Putri, and Teresa Allan, and edited by Jaron Henrie-McCrea. It contains reporting by Russell Pearlman, Arianne Cohen, and Peter Lauria.

Our video segment contains original artwork by Frazer Milton, Hayley Kennell, Jonathan Pink, and Sasha Kostyuk.

Don't forget to read our magazine, available at newsstands and at kornferry.com/briefings.

That's it for Korn Ferry's "Briefings".

I'm Jill Wiltfong. We'll see you next time.

Recruiter Man:

Noooooooooooooooo!

And we're cutting.