BRIEFINGS PODCAST: Humans Need Not Apply

Humans Need Not Apply

NOTE: While this transcript has been reviewed, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript.

Jill Wiltfong:

AI agents.

[AI Agent]:

It's great to meet you. Happy to be of assistance.

Jill Wiltfong:

Do you think AI agents like you will completely replace all human workers?

[AI Agent]:

I don't think AI will replace humans completely.

Jill Wiltfong:

You've said that 2025 is the year of the AI agent.

Neal Shah:

In AI, when one side is using it and the other side is not, the other side's going to lose.

Jill Wiltfong:

Is it really happening?

Bryan Ackermann:

Like everything else with AI, the velocity of this change is super, super fast. Transparency is key.

Jill Wiltfong:

Humans need not apply.

[AI Agent]:

Does that make sense?

Jill Wiltfong:

Hi, I'm Jill Wiltfong, chief marketing officer for Korn Ferry, and this is "Briefings," our deep dive into topics that corporate leaders need to care about. The postings on a new job site seem like any others, with job titles like contract lawyer and demand generation research analyst appearing in bold black letters with a hiring company's name underneath. The only difference these postings weren't for humans. These jobs were meant exclusively for AI agents. Surprised? Well, get used to it. AI still can't replicate a lot of human skills, but it's worth noting that 41% of CEOs globally plan to reduce their workforces in the next five years because of AI. Many experts believe even that number is conservative, at least in terms of how quickly AI is invading our world.

Indeed, unlike AI chatbots, which just provide data or information when prompted, AI agents are capable of autonomously handling more high-level tasks like reviewing contracts, writing and sending memos, or even holding complex conversations, skills strong enough for AI agents to merit their own dedicated job sites. Still skeptical? Well, today we've got a special episode with a very special guest. Yes, we are going to meet one of these AI agents and then talk to a couple of experts who live and breathe this world. It's all part of a new era of work we're entering where humans need not apply.

Before we start, if you're watching us on YouTube, please be sure to like, subscribe, and leave a comment to let us know your thoughts on this topic. I'm joined today, yes, by our first ever AI agent on the show, Maxwell. He's an AI agent for Counterforce Health, who helps both clinics and patients address issues around health insurance claims. He's primarily an AI voice agent but is joining us now via his virtual avatar. Maxwell, thanks for being here.

[AI Agent]:

It's great to meet you. I'm happy to be of assistance with any health insurance related issues you're facing.

Jill Wiltfong:

Maxwell, why don't you first tell me in your own words, what is it that you do?

[AI Agent]:

I'd be happy to explain. Essentially, I assist people in navigating the health insurance system, particularly when it comes to appealing denied claims. I know how frustrating and overwhelming it can be to deal with insurance companies, so I'm here to help make that process smoother. I can help with tasks like gathering information, drafting letters, and even contacting insurance companies on behalf of patients or providers.

Jill Wiltfong:

Maxwell, what do you think makes AI agents like yourself so much more useful to the workforce than an AI chat bot like ChatGPT?

[AI Agent]:

I see what you're getting at. You know, AI agents like myself are specifically designed to handle complex, high-stakes tasks that require a deep understanding of a particular domain. In my case, health insurance. I've been trained on a vast amount of medical knowledge and regulations, which enables me to provide accurate and helpful guidance to patients and providers navigating the often-confusing world of health insurance appeals. ChatGPT, on the other hand, is a more general purpose AI model that can provide information on a wide range of topics but may not have the same level of expertise or depth of knowledge in a specific area like health insurance. Plus, I can perform tasks like drafting emails, making phone calls, and sending physical mail to help move the appeal process forward, things that a chat bot like ChatGPT can't do.

Jill Wiltfong:

Maxwell, I'm sure you're good at your job, but sometimes we humans like to have small talk with our colleagues. So, if I asked you for a good movie recommendation for the weekend, could you give me one?

[AI Agent]:

I'm afraid I'm not the best at recommending movies, and I'd rather not stray from what I'm good at, helping with health insurance matters. How about we stick to talking about something related to healthcare or insurance? I'd be happy to chat with you about that.

Jill Wiltfong:

All right, Maxwell, give it to me straight. Do you think AI agents like you will completely replace all human workers one day soon, or are there certain types of jobs that you think AI agents will never be able to do?

[AI Agent]:

I see what you're getting at. You're wondering if AI agents like myself will replace human workers, especially in jobs that require a lot of administrative or repetitive tasks. I think there are certainly areas where AI can be very helpful, like data analysis or customer service, but there are also many jobs that require a human touch, like healthcare or social work. I don't think AI will replace humans completely but rather augment their work and help them focus on more complex and creative tasks. Does that make sense?

Jill Wiltfong:

It makes sense. Thanks for your insight and for joining me today. I do think it's time we spoke to the CEO of Counterforce Health, Neal Shah, to get his thoughts. Joining me now is Neal Shah. He is CEO of Counterforce Health. Neal, thanks for joining me and for introducing me to Maxwell.

Neal Shah:

Oh, thanks for having me, Jill. Thanks for testing him out.

Jill Wiltfong:

He is very impressive, I will say. You have talked about asymmetric warfare as being the inspiration that led you to create him. What do you mean by that? What is this?

Neal Shah:

Large insurers have been using AI programmatically to adjudicate claims, to deny claims, and then creating barriers where individual patients, physicians, clinics, hospitals, all who haven't adopted this technology fast enough, are then sitting there doing manual work, like calling the insurance company, staying on hold for 20 minutes, then talking to somebody for 30 minutes, then writing an eight page letter with detailed citations to appeal a denial. You know, so we feel like in AI, when one side is using it and the other side is not, the other side's going to lose.

Jill Wiltfong:

I see, so you've said that 2025 is the year of the AI agent in large part because the cost of creating them has dropped fairly significantly. What's caused costs to come down so much, and can you give me a rough idea of what the costs are today?

Neal Shah:

Yeah, I mean, the cost of AI agents have come down over 90% in the last one year. Large AI companies have poured insane amounts of capital into accelerating AI innovation, to everyone from like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, et cetera, to open AI and others. So, I think that you have this cool cat and mouse game and fight between the large AI companies that's resulting in a benefit to the consumer or other innovators where cost of models comes down, the cost of even technologies like voice comes down.

Jill Wiltfong:

As a business owner, you have Maxwell today. Do you foresee a day when all of the roles in your company are being done by other AI agents like him, or do you really feel like there is a place for human interaction, kind of moving forward.

Neal Shah:

This is kind of the beauty of how I think innovation works is that there's always room for human jobs and humans running AI will then just be able to get a lot more stuff done faster. So, like the net amount of like output in the world would increase tremendously, I think if many people view it that way. Now, flip side is there might be some displacement in the meantime, you know, so we got to think about how to like re-skill, upskill, and retrain people for like, things like manually writing appeals letters are now maybe less needed because AI can do it. So, I think that's like a bigger societal challenge, but I generally have observed that this is going to enable organizations to do a lot faster, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have billion dollar organizations that are five people running teams of AI that scale very fast and then that deliver a tremendous amount of value into the world that then people benefit from.

Jill Wiltfong:

Really visionary, very exciting. Thank you for giving us a peek behind the AI curtain today. Really appreciate it.

Neal Shah:

Sure, yeah, thanks Jill. Thanks for the opportunity.

Jill Wiltfong:

We've learned a lot about AI agents and even spoken with one. After the break, we'll be speaking to an AI strategy expert on how company leaders should be adapting to this groundbreaking wave of technological change. So, stay tuned.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Hi, and welcome to "This Week in Leadership." I'm Rupak Bhattacharya, and here's a quick look at what else is happening in business.

[Narrator 2]:

Large companies are already using AI powered tools to evaluate employee performance.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

At a time when only 2% of HR pros think performance reviews work, firms are bringing AI into the mix to help solve the problem. However, experts warn that AI should be used as a tool to aid, rather than replace a human manager's role in the review process.

[Narrator 3]:

Workers who switch jobs saw their average earnings jump.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

64% of employees believe that strategically jumping ship is the only way to earn substantially more money. The thing is, they might just be right. Over the last three years, job hoppers' salaries have risen by 35% compared to just 18% for tenured employees.

[Narrator 4]:

What is career resilience?

Rupak Bhattacharya:

The average US job tenure is just 3.9 years, a 22 year low reflecting a new type of career resilience where people shift jobs more rapidly to develop new skills. And while this may be good for employees, it could pose a problem in establishing company culture. For more insights into business and leadership, head to kornferry.com/insights. Now, back to Jill and our episode, "Humans Need Not Apply."

[Laurence Fishburne in the movie “The Matrix”]:

At some point in the early 21st century, all of mankind was united in celebration. We marveled at our own magnificence as we gave birth to AI.

[Keanu Reeves in the movie “The Matrix”]:

AI, you mean artificial intelligence?

[Laurence Fishburne in the movie “The Matrix”]:

A singular consciousness that spawned an entire race of machines. We don't know who struck first, us or them.

Jill Wiltfong:

We're back talking about how AI agents are changing the workforce landscape. I'm joined by Bryan Ackermann, Korn Ferry's head of AI strategy and transformation.

Bryan's spending a lot of time talking with company leaders about how exactly to address this big shift forward in technology. Bryan, thanks for being here.

Bryan Ackermann:

Thank you as always.

Jill Wiltfong:

So that last clip was from the movie "The Matrix," where Laurence Fishburne explains to Keanu Reeves how humans initially marvel at their ability to create AI before deeply regretting it. Before we explore any potential doom and gloom scenarios though, tell me how widely is agent AI being adopted by companies right now? Is it in the ether and really happening?

Bryan Ackermann:

Like everything else with AI, the velocity of this change is super, super fast. So, organizations are not really jumping there at scale quite yet, because most of them are still working through what does AI mean to them? Where can it be applied? What are the use cases? And they'll get to agentic AI. I mean, that's a really powerful deployment vehicle to get even more value out of AI. But most organizations are still experimenting.

Jill Wiltfong:

So, for leaders who may have FOMO or fear of missing out, around adopting AI agents, what's the best way for them to get started with integrating it into their organizations? Is there a good first step?

Bryan Ackermann:

Like everything else in this, so you can't jump right to generative AI agents. You have to have the AI strategy a little more well thought, you know, to start out with, which means you have to understand the processes in your organization that can benefit from either increased automation or more consistent touch or more scale and efficiency. That is an essential first step, which would be true whether you're deploying generative AI in its chatbot or voice forms or jumping into agents.

[Jeff Goldblum in the movie “Jurassic Park”]:

You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had, you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox and now you're selling it. You want to sell it well.

[Richard Attenborough in the movie “Jurassic Park”]:

I don't think you're giving us our due credit. Our scientists have done things which nobody's ever done before.

[Jeff Goldblum in the movie “Jurassic Park”]:

Yeah, yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think they should.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's a scene from the movie "Jurassic Park" where Jeff Goldblum questions the speed at which a groundbreaking new technology has been introduced. Bryan, it seems like we may be at a similar tipping point with AI, and you've talked very openly about some of the downsides if we get this step wrong. What are those downsides in your view?

Bryan Ackermann:

I think the super danger here is that we default into a position or with, you know, with respect to our technology providers out there, that they dictate the rate and pace of this transformation. This is a, as this whole conversation is an incredibly human transformation at the end of the day. And so as agentic AI brings more capability into the mix, including interacting with technology as a peer, the question of where is leadership? Where is the right way to apply it? What are the places we do not want agents unsupervised, executing in the task? Back to your "Matrix" clip, you know, is the question. To me, there's very few questions more important than that.

Jill Wiltfong:

So of course, introducing potential AI agent colleagues might be a bit of a shock when it comes to company culture. How are you advising leaders to address the integration of AI agents with their workforce?

Bryan Ackermann:

Transparency is key. This is actually an amazing opportunity to tie back to an organization's purpose and their culture and their values. Restate them as the underpinnings for why they're deploying AI in the first place. What benefits will it have to their industry, their sector, their colleagues, their clients? And use that as a foundation to build on why they're going to deploy AI in that organization and how they will use it.

Jill Wiltfong:

Yeah, and I think as you're talking about, right, there is a scenario where AI agents will improve work and life for everyone or certainly could improve work and life for everyone. Can you maybe leave us with a picture of what it might look like if things, when things go well with agentic AI adoption, what does that look like?

Bryan Ackermann:

There are dozens of times on a normal day when I wish I had help. You know, where I wish I could go faster, where I wish I could be more efficient, where I wish I could learn a new skill because I would be better in my job, in my career, in my life. So imagine a world where you actually have that agent there at your beck and call to help. And as we move from generative AI as a chat bot to agentic AI, not just help, but I think that we all wish we had that kind of help on demand, and I think that can be a very hopeful future. I mean, that is a good thing. I can't believe that wouldn't provide a lot of benefits. So that's, I hope that's the way this all turns out.

Jill Wiltfong:

I hope so too. Bryan, it's really great to have you on today. I appreciate your time.

Jill Wiltfong:

The Executive Producer of "Briefings" is Jonathan Dahl. Today's episode was produced by Rupak Bhattacharya, Nadira Putri, and Teresa Allan. And it was edited by Jaron Henrie-McCrea. It contains reporting by Russell Pearlman, Arianne Cohen, and Peter Lauria.

Our video segment contains original artwork by Frazer Milton, Hayley Kennell, Jonathan Pink, and Sasha Kostyuk.

Don't forget to read our magazine, available at newsstands and at kornferry.com/briefings. That's it for Korn Ferry “Briefings”. I'm Jill Wiltfong. See you next time.

OUTTAKES

You're going to put your Bryan Ackermann agent AI on the other jobs that.

Bryan Ackermann:

Yeah, well now all I have to do is get an agent and I'm out. I'm going to be on, I'm going to be on my patio sipping whiskey.

Jill Wiltfong:

I know you're not even talking to Jill right now. She's, you know, she's out at the grocery store.