BRIEFINGS PODCAST:The New Era of Job Hiring

The New Era of Job Hiring

NOTE: While this transcript has been reviewed, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript.

Jill Wiltfong:

How to present yourself to land a job in today's tight market?

[Jake Gyllenhaal in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

Sell yourself.

Jill Wiltfong:

What are some of the absolute red flags?

Liz Ryan:

We know you can do a lot of things. What do you intend to do next?

[Jonah Hill in the ‘Wolf of Wallstreet’ movie]:

Hey, listen, I quit.

Jill Wiltfong:

Why are companies taking so much longer than before to hire people?

Jeanne MacDonald:

AI, return to office skills-based hiring. Come in with a vision, a mission, a strategy. Other than that, I'm good.

Jill Wiltfong:

Just do such a good job. Hi, I am Jill Wiltfong, Chief Marketing Officer for Korn Ferry. And this is Briefings, our deep dive into topics that corporate leaders need to care about. In our recent episode, The New Unemployables, we discussed the difficulty many well-qualified people today are having in finding a job. To give you a sense of how hard the job market is for everyone, between the end of last year and the end of 2022, the number of people looking for a job for six months or longer jumped a staggering 50%. And I hate to say it, but maybe a number of those people looking may not be doing it the right way. Artificial intelligence has changed the whole way candidates apply for work and how companies weed out thousands of applicants that come pouring in these days. Hiring managers are also becoming a different breed. They are more hurried to keep the interview process moving along. And finally, that old hiring tool, networking, is nothing like it used to be. It's much less about attending conferences and far more about social media and LinkedIn.

So, with all of the change being ushered in, we decided to talk to some job-hunting pros about how both sides of the equation have shifted. Can't guarantee you'll land a dream gig right away, but it certainly can hurt to learn more about today's new era of job hiring.

Now, before we start, if you're watching us on YouTube, please be sure to like, subscribe and leave a comment to let us know your thoughts on this topic. I am joined today by Liz Ryan, CEO and Founder of Human Workplace, a coaching and consulting firm. In addition to her work helping countless clients land roles, Liz is unique because she has, get this, nearly three million followers on LinkedIn. So, I'd say that kind of social media savvy does make Liz the right kind of expert for today's really rapidly evolving job market. So, Liz, thank you for joining me today.

Liz Ryan:

Oh, thank you for having me, Jill.

Jill Wiltfong:

So, let's first address really the elephant in the room because I know everybody wants to know how did you get three million followers,

Liz Ryan:

Content, content. I post what I like, what I care about, what I want to talk about, and what you find is that there might be other people who are interested in the same things you are.

Jill Wiltfong:

Interesting. So, something for us all to kind of keep in mind. Let's dive into this topic today because you know, those of us who only have a few thousand or a few hundred followers might get a little discouraged, but you've actually said it's not that important to have a lot of followers if you want to get a job. Connect the dots for us there.

Liz Ryan:

Sure, sure, sure. The idea of being a social media star or having a lot of followers is appealing to a lot of people. But if you think about what you really need to get a job, it's not a lot of people that know that you exist, but it's a good bead on the needs of the hiring managers that you would like to work for. And the first mistake people make, unfortunately, in the job searches, they don't know what kind of job they want, and that just immediately makes it impossible for them to brand themselves effectively.

Jill Wiltfong:

LinkedIn is of course still a valuable job search tool, and it can also lose you a job too. Tell me, when you're looking at your client's profile, what are some of the absolute red flags that end the party for candidates maybe before it even starts?

Liz Ryan:

Exactly. The first one is what we said that no idea what I want to do next. And it comes very strongly through the page. You can tell, no, we've got to stop, back up, and decide. A job search is a marketing exercise. Just like if you're marketing a product or service, who's the buyer? What's the pay? And it's exactly the same in your job search. You cannot say that my brand is going to encompass everything I can do. That's not the point. We know you can do a lot of things. What do you intend to do next? But the second red flag, jargon. Results-oriented professional, proven track record is success. Now what other kind of proven track record would there be? And if it's a proven track record. Get rid of the jargon. It kills you. It takes all the spark and the humanity and the power out of your resume. It sounds like I'm afraid to sound like a person, so I'm going to sound like a robot. Just get it out. It's 1980 stuff. Take it out. Motivated self-starter, you know, bottom line orientation, results, orient interprofessional, get rid of all of it, it's tired and it brands you in exactly the wrong way.

[Jonah Hill in the ‘Wolf of Wallstreet’ movie]:

- Seriously, how much money you made?

[Leonardo DiCaprio]:

I told you 70,000. Well, technically 72,000 last month, something like that.

[Jonah Hill in the ‘Wolf of Wallstreet’ movie]:

You made 72 grand in one month. I tell you what, you show me a pay stub for $72,000 on it. I quit my job right now and I work for you. Hey, Paulie, what's up? No, yeah, no, everything's fine. Hey, listen, I quit.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's a scene from the "Wolf of Wall Street" where Jonah Hill's character gets himself hired by a stockbroker, played by Leonardo DiCaprio. Hill's character certainly stands out from the crowd and his approach, and you've talked about how candidates can differentiate themselves by sending so-called pain letters via snail mail. I am curious to hear more about this.

Liz Ryan:

The pain letter approach came to me because I'm an HR leader and I, my teammates and I hired 10,000 people. And so people would write to us occasionally and also write to the hiring managers on our team with a very specific letter about issues that their hiring managers were actually dealing with, which is pain. That's why it's called a pain letter. I invented this about 15, 18 years ago. And it works so well because you're sending a message, a letter, a physical letter directly to your hiring manager's desk, and who gets mail at their desk anymore?

Jill Wiltfong:

No one.

Liz Ryan:

The office at home. And it lands with a little thud. You pick it up, you can't just ignore it like an email. You have to decide and it's sitting there and the person is speaking to you in a way that maybe your own partner isn't. It says, hey, great job on launching the, the Korn Ferry podcast. It's really fantastic, I listen to it every week. Oh, thank you. I think it's cool too. I wasn't sure, but I wondered whether given your new joint venture with so-and-so, you might be in need of whatever. And it's just, it just flows from what you know about their situation and what you know about people in their role in general.

Jill Wiltfong:

Let's end by coming back to LinkedIn, where we started from. We know that you don't need a million followers to get a gig. So, what are the best tips you have for people using that platform to land a job?

Liz Ryan:

Make sure your profile sings your song. A lot of the folks who undoubtedly listen to this podcast, Jill, are too senior to be applying for jobs online. In any case, they should be getting their jobs through recruiters, which they will be doing if recruiters find their profile grabby, and they won't, if it's very sparse and it doesn't include much detail. If you list your old job description with all the tasks and duties, then you're saying this is what literally anybody in the job would've done. Just tell us a couple of your signal accomplishments, right? The things you're proud of. Give us some personality. Use the word, I, in your LinkedIn profile, a great photo that looks like you have a personality and a pulse. Step into the whole thing. It is not the earlier eras where your friends would get you a job or, it's all about focusing on what you want and then putting your best face out there.

Jill Wiltfong:

I love it. Thank you so much you, for all of your advice. I think it is incredibly practical. And really my takeaway is really be authentic, be you, and focus. Thank you for coming on today, Liz, appreciate it. We've taken a look at how job seekers need to be presenting themselves in today's market. After the break, we'll explore hiring from the company perspective. What are the top traits and skills that they say they're looking for? Stay with us.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Hi, and welcome to This Week in Leadership. I'm Rupak Bhattacharya, and here's a quick look at what else is happening in business.

[Narrator]:

The gig economy.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

Gig workers led by Gen Z will represent half of the developed world's workforce by 2027, up from almost a third of all workers today. Experts say this mainly reflects two developments, the push among leaders for people to return to the office full time and the endless rounds of layoffs at firms in recent years.

[Narrator]:

The cost of AI.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

74% of CEOs waged that they could be ousted if they don't deliver measurable AI gains within the next two years. The crux of the issue with companies pouring billions into AI, stakeholders are increasingly demanding to see results. Problem is, the technology despite its high cost, isn't likely to provide financial returns in one to five year horizons.

[Narrator]:

A look at employee turnover.

Rupak Bhattacharya:

At 13.5%, last year's voluntary turnover rate among employees was almost half what it was in 2022. Experts say this stems from economic uncertainty, forcing older workers to keep working and causing Gen Z to envision staying in one job for seven years or longer, which is more than double the 3.5 year average cited by workers overall. For more insights from This Week in Leadership, head to kornferry.com/insights. Now back to Jill, on our episode, The New Era of Job Hiring.

[Interviewer in the movie ‘Big’]:

Says here, you've got four years experience.

[Interviewee in the movie ‘Big’]:

- Yes.

[Interviewer in the movie ‘Big’]:

All on computers.

[Interviewee in the movie ‘Big’]:

Yes.

[Interviewer in the movie ‘Big’]:

Where did you go to school?

[Interviewee in the movie ‘Big’]:

It was, it was called George Washington.

[Interviewer in the movie ‘Big’]:

Oh, GW. My brother-in-law got his doctorate there. Did you pledge?

[Interviewee in the movie ‘Big’]:

Yes. Every morning

Jill Wiltfong:

We're back talking about how to present yourself to land a job in today's tight market. And with us now is Jeanne MacDonald, CEO of Korn Ferry's RPO Business. She's helped lots of companies hire thousands of employees, so I'd say she knows a thing or two about what these firms are looking for. Jeanne, it's great to have you on.

Jeanne MacDonald:

Thank you for having me. Good to see you, Jill.

Jill Wiltfong:

Good to see you. So that last clip we just played, featured Tom Hanks in the movie "Big", in the middle of a really nerve-wracking job interview. As we set off the top, the hard truth is that more and more people are spending six months or longer just to even get to the interview stage. Give some context for all the frustrated job seekers out there. Why are companies taking so much longer than before to hire people?

Jeanne MacDonald:

What happened in 2024 was really a year where a lot of businesses sort of took a pause after the big post-COVID boom of hiring. Lots of big changes in 2024. AI, return to office, big transformation, skills-based hiring, right? You name it. And it really did cause businesses to sort of slow down and rethink who they wanted to bring in from the outside into their organizations.

Jill Wiltfong:

So you talk about AI, let's dig a little deeper into that. Around half of job seekers are now using tools like ChatGPT to generate their resumes, to generate their cover letters, and some say that's leading to hiring managers to receive more paperwork than they can even handle. Are there things that firms are doing to adjust to this kind of AI powered influx. Are they upgrading their own AI systems? What, what's happening here?

Jeanne MacDonald:

The hiring managers really want to use AI to kind of screen down who the candidates are that they would be talking to. So, on the hiring manager side, they're saying, okay, I want to use AI to help kind of help me determine who my top 25 candidates would be that are coming my way that I want to talk to. And then from there, using AI to potentially look at what are the right questions I want to ask each candidate according to their specific resumes so I can be really informed as a hiring manager about the kinds of questions that I want to ask them.

[Jake Gyllenhaal in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

I'd like to know about your prior employment and hear it in your own words, what you learned from each position.

[Riz Ahmed in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

My old jobs? I landscaping for a couple months. Like, mow, blow, and go, you know. I learned that I had hay fever, so I quit.

[Jake Gyllenhaal in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

Other jobs?

[Riz Ahmed in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

I don't know. Like, a week here, a week there.

[Jake Gyllenhaal in the movie ‘Nightcrawler’]:

Why hire you? Sell yourself.

Jill Wiltfong:

That's Jake Gyllenhaal and Riz Ahmed in a job interview scene from the movie "Nightcrawler". Jake's character asks Riz to sell himself for the job. So, Jeanne, let me ask you, given how difficult it is to get in the door these days, what stands out to hiring managers? How can applicants best sell themselves for a job?

Jeanne MacDonald:

It's really important for the applicant to do their homework about not only the job but the company. And then when you've done your pre-work, you really want to apply your answers to the questions a hiring manager's going to be asking you that are very specific to, let me tell you why I feel like I would fit your company culture. I read about your company culture and here are the specific reasons and the specific examples of some work history that I've had that would help me understand why it would be a good fit for your organization.

Jill Wiltfong:

We do know it's not just, you know, mids and junior folks that are looking for jobs, but senior executives too. You've said that companies are also looking for them to show that they're thought leaders in their space. Sometimes even expecting them to bring maybe a business case to an interview, a real example of something tangible that they've done. Elaborate on that a little bit for us as well.

Jeanne MacDonald:

Come in with a vision, a mission, a strategy, a plan to not only achieve the objectives you believe the business is going to have, but then how you're going to help solve that with the job that you're bringing to the table. And very specific, show them, don't overwhelm them. I'm talking probably no more than two to three pages. And you know, it's impressive if you bring that out in the interview and said, I actually did do a business case. I want to approach this from a problem-solving standpoint. I've thought about the future in mind because leaders often the jobs of the leader are to be able to predict the future.

Jill Wiltfong:

Great. Thank you, Jeanne. As always, it's really a pleasure to get your insight, so thanks for being here.

Jeanne MacDonald:

Of course, it was my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Jill.

Jill Wiltfong:

The Executive Producer of "Briefings" is Jonathan Dahl. Today's episode was produced by Rupak Bhattacharya, Nadira Putri, and Teresa Allan. And it was edited by Jaron Henrie-McCrea. It contains reporting by Russell Pearlman, Arianne Cohen, and Peter Lauria.

Our video segment contains original artwork by Frazer Milton, Hayley Kennell, Jonathan Pink, and Sasha Kostyuk.

Don't forget to read our magazine, available at newsstands and at kornferry.com/briefings. That's it for Korn Ferry “Briefings”. I'm Jill Wiltfong. See you next time.

Liz Ryan:

Why do we still ask what's your greatest weakness? Come on. Why would anybody ask that? Why would they ask-

Jill Wiltfong:

It's your perfectionism, Liz. It always is.

Liz Ryan:

Thank you, Jill.