BRIEFINGS PODCAST:

Pay Transparently or Pay Later

NOTE: While this transcript has been reviewed, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript.

Jill Wiltfong:
Hi, I’m Jill Wiltfong, Chief Marketing Officer for Korn Ferry, and this is Briefings—our deep dive into topics that corporate leaders need to care about. Have you ever had someone ask what you make? What do you say? If that question makes you freeze up, you’re not alone.

Despite a plethora of pay-transparency laws requiring firms to list salary ranges on job postings, many companies have been slow to act. In fact, less than a third of U.S. companies are compliant—and in some European countries it’s even less. But pay experts say avoiding transparency is the absolute wrong way to go. Compliance aside, transparency can be a key to building trust—and trust is the backbone of company culture, something executives attribute to 30% or more of firm market value.

So if pay transparency is so good for both the workplace and the bottom line, why are so many firms still stalling? And what can they do to get moving? Let’s find out as we discuss why firms today can either pay transparently—or pay later.

Jill Wiltfong :
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Jill Wiltfong:
I’m joined now by Tom McMullen, the leader of Korn Ferry’s North America Total Rewards practice. Tom works closely with top company leaders on how to best upgrade reward strategies to include pay transparency. Tom, thanks for coming on.

Tom McMullen:
Yeah—hi, Jill. Great to be with you.

Jill Wiltfong:
Let’s start with why most companies still haven’t adopted a pay-transparency policy. What’s behind the reluctance?

Tom McMullen:
Leaders aren’t necessarily aligned. They may support transparency in principle but disagree on tactics, details, and timing. A big issue is manager capability—many people leaders lack the training, tools, and confidence to discuss pay and equity with their teams. Organizations that move forward successfully aren’t the ones with perfect systems; they’re the ones with the courage to start, communicate honestly, and improve continuously.

Jill Wiltfong:
You’ve observed that many employers say their reward programs “aren’t ready for public view.” What separates a company that’s ready from one that isn’t?

Tom McMullen:
Key differentiators are a clear philosophy and intent, with leaders aligned around it and able to explain the how and why people are paid as they are—consistently across the org. You also need solid market-based data underpinnings: how jobs are leveled, how pay is set, and how promotions work.

Jill Wiltfong:
That clip was from Bullet Train. And Tom, you’ve said one of the most important steps in communicating pay transparency is getting your story right. Our data shows 45% of companies report their managers aren’t skilled at delivering pay messages. What’s a good story versus a not-so-good one?

Tom McMullen:
Good stories start with the why. When describing the what—pay ranges, structures—you equip managers to explain why transparency matters: fairness, trust, alignment with company values. Don’t stop at numbers; explain the principles behind them.

Jill Wiltfong:
What about competitive concerns—leaders who fear that sharing ranges will help rivals poach talent?

Tom McMullen:
We hear that, but market data is largely public. Competitors already access pay data through surveys; job postings are increasingly transparent as more states come online. In practice, sharing ranges doesn’t reveal anything your competitors can’t already infer—and those postings become a great analytic tool for you, too.

Jill Wiltfong:
If you could leave viewers with one insight about why pay transparency matters beyond compliance, what would it be?

Tom McMullen:
Fresh data shows applicants are less likely to apply to organizations that aren’t transparent. If one company posts ranges and program attributes and another doesn’t, the transparent company gets the bigger, better applicant pool. Bottom line: pay transparency is a direct indicator of credibility, maturity, trust, and professionalism—and whether you treat people as a cost or an investment.

Jill Wiltfong:
So compliance may be the framework getting us to the table, but you see opportunity. Tom, great to have you on—thanks so much.

Tom McMullen:
Thanks, Jill.

[Segment Break]

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Narration:
For more insights from This Week in Leadership, head to Korn Ferry Insights. Now back to Jill and our episode.

Clip VO: “What do you do for a living?” “I’m a software engineer.” “How much are you making in the role?”

Jill Wiltfong:
We’ve been talking about hesitancy around pay transparency. Joining me now to share the culture perspective is Karrin Randle, a Korn Ferry Associate Client Partner in our Culture Change & Communications practice. She’s advised leaders extensively on the workforce impact of pay transparency. Karrin, thanks for joining me.

Karrin Randle:
Of course—great to be here.

Jill Wiltfong:
That last clip was from influencer Hannah Williams’ Salary Transparent Street, where she asks people how much they make. Karrin, that kind of openness still feels difficult for many corporate environments. You’ve said transparency is critical for building a culture employees are energized to show up for. Ellaborate that a little for me.

Karrin Randle:
Transparency is culture in disguise. It’s not just numbers—it’s trust. When employees understand how pay decisions are made, they feel respected and valued. Right now, there’s a big understanding gap: employees at 61% of organizations don’t understand their firm’s reward strategy, which erodes trust and engagement. A transparent, defensible pay story closes that gap and reinforces the culture we want.

Jill Wiltfong:
You have also said that enabaling managers to have reall constructive conversations around pay is what’s really key to transformation so let’s take the example of an employee that walks into the mangers office upset because they see the person in cubicle making ~30% more. How should a manager handle that?

Karrin Randle:
First, validate with empathy. Then clarify the process: how roles are evaluated, how pay is determined, and how we balance market competitiveness with internal equity. Finally, point to levers employees can influence—building skills, sustaining performance, taking on new responsibilities—so they see a path to impact and progression.

Jill Wiltfong:
That was Arrival, where scientists decode an alien message. Many firms’ rewards messages need decoding too—our data shows nearly a third lack a clear total-rewards message. As a communications expert, what do companies get wrong, and how do they fix it?

Karrin Randle:
First, have a good story to tell: a clear philosophy and guiding principles that actually show up in decisions. Next, tell it well—starting at the top. Leaders must align on what transparency means here and champion it themselves. Then empower managers as the storytellers. Finally, tell it often and evolve it over time. Treat total rewards like a campaign, not a one-off announcement—listen, adapt as employee values shift, and continually reinforce what makes your organization stand out.

Jill Wiltfong:
Some companies are taking a wait-and-see approach. To the CEO or rewards leader on the sidelines—what’s the risk of waiting too long?

Karrin Randle:
The risk is reputational, not just regulatory. Transparency is already here—job boards show it, employees discuss it. If your frameworks and messaging aren’t ready, others will write the story for you, and it can cost you talent. Compliance is the baseline; credibility is the target. That’s what fuels culture, builds trust, reduces risk, and turns transparency into a talent advantage.

Jill Wiltfong:
Karrin, thank you—really appreciate your insights on how pay transparency will change the workplace in what seems like pretty significant ways.

Karrin Randle:
Thanks so much, Jill. Great to be here.

Jill Wiltfong:
The executive producer of Briefings is Jonathan Dahl. Today’s episode was produced by Rupak Bhattacharyya and Zachary Dore, and it was edited by Jaren Henry McRae.

It contains reporting by Russell Pearlman, Ariane Cohen, Peter Lauria, and Meghan Walsh. Our video segment contains original artwork by Fraser Milton, Haley Kennel, Jonathan Pink, and Sasha Kotzek.

Don’t forget to read our magazine—available at newsstands and at kornferry.com/briefings.

That’s it for Korn Ferry Briefings. I’m Jill Wiltfong. See you next time.